August 31, 2010

5000 Dutch Zeitgeist Members

Netherlands 5,002

Saw yesterday that the total number of members in Holland reached over 5000. Think that's a good thing for such a small country. Although Holland has over 16 million inhabitants I think still only a few have come into contact with the Zeitgeist films, the Venus Project and the ideology of a resource based economy. Holland is also pretty much divided along the political spectrum. The last election wielded a tiny majority for the liberal right wing party VVD, closely followed by the Dutch Labour Party PvdA who had one seat less. The country isn't really 'left' or 'right' and there are many more smaller parties. It's difficult to assess what that means for the future seeing how our political system is so fragmented and divided. I think it is within the realm of possibilities that the amount of Dutch ZG members will double within a year or two but we shouldn't expect any miracles anytime soon. Still, reaching 5000 is a milestone, and I suppose something to be proud of.

August 29, 2010

Lazar's Hydrogen Car


Fascinating to see Bob Lazar again. He was quite a hot item back in the 90s with his claims of having worked at Area 51 and to have worked on a saucer shaped craft there. I recall the 'shockwaves' that he created and the folks that took issues with his claims. Subsequently Lazar got a, pardon my French, shitload of critique. Many people doubted his credentials, pointed out there was no evidence to his claims and even doubted he was a scientist to begin with.

Considering these points of criticism it's intriguing to see how Bob Lazar managed to build a hydrogen system in his car, and not only that. He also set up a lot of equipment which produces hydrogen on a daily basis. Still doesn't end here since he produced materials you can't get at the counter in order to make the hydrogen system work. I would say that qualifies him as a smart guy. It should be clear to everyone that the technology to replace fossil fuel based engines is already present.

August 23, 2010

Milky Way Shadow At Loch Ard Gorge


Wow, what a shot. Conditions have to be just right and the camera needs long exposure time but then you really get something.

August 20, 2010

ZG Member Statistics Anomalies

Can't help to think that the Zeitgeist member statistics are not in order. While it's mentioned on the forum that they are sorting out different mailing lists and that this is the cause for some discrepancies, I reckon that's not all of it. Some countries that are listed have a disproportionate high number of members - where you wouldn't expect it. I'm wondering if there's a bit of foul play at work here. Lets take a look at some of the countries that stand out in membership (as of 8-20-10);
Afghanistan 2,258
Antarctica 32
Greenland 82
Neutral Zone 13
North Korea 80
Afghanistan. Unusual high number since it can be easily assumed that not many people have internet access and speak English over there in that country, let alone get acquainted with the Zeitgeist material. Maybe soldiers from the various countries that make up the NATO coalition list Afghanistan when they become members but I would logically assume they would forward their own country of birth. (Got a good comment from Muertos, and it's entire possible that a lot of members don't identify their home country when enlisting - Afghanistan being the first country on the list and some might be a bit too lazy to scroll down.)
Antarctica. Bit of the same mechanics here. Antarctica is not a country but a continent and all the territorial claims are still disputed. There are scientists of course from many different countries but again I would assume they would list their country of birth, not the place they happen to work at.
Greenland. This 'country' is still part of Denmark although with a great deal of autonomy. It's possible that some folks there would list Greenland if they have local sentiments and don't feel any affiliation with Denmark itself. When I picture Greenland, I don't see a modern easily accessible society. I see snow, ice and isolation. But maybe a bunch of folks have internet access there. I don't know.
Neutral Zone. From Star Trek? Not sure what this is doing here on the ZG membership list. Maybe some people don't want to list their country of origin and have this option? Strange if you ask me.
North Korea. Same story here since I would expect not many people have internet access, actually since this country is so restricted in so many ways I would imagine only some government officials have internet access and they wouldn't do anything on their own without approval. I would expect the ZG membership from North Korea to be zero.

What does this mean? Well, it's pure speculation on my part but I wouldn't put it beyond the motivation of some people that they would deliberately list some of the countries I mentioned. It's quite easy to find a number of free email providers, a quick search would reveal dozens. Maybe some people use those different email accounts, list a country that doesn't make much or any sense and let the numbers rise. At some point in the future when the numbers have grown these people get vocal and start to address the fact that some countries shouldn't have such high numbers in membership, and that therefore the Zeitgeist Movement is at fault. While this is strictly theoretical on my part, seeing some people behave on the internet and criticizing Zeitgeist sometimes stooping to incredible low levels, I wouldn't put such an action that I theorized past them. So, when some people start to get loud and make an issue about the membership statistics. . . You read it here first.

August 16, 2010

Dutch Zeitgeist Sticker Designs

The guys over at the Dutch Zeitgeist forums made a number of sticker designs. A few of those contain Dutch text while others stick to English (which most Dutch people can read anyway). There are even larger pictures available over in this thread at the Dutch forums.


(Translation: "How long do we remain silent?")
(Translation: "Do you know how money is made?")




August 15, 2010

Funky Mushrooms


Been working in my garden the last couple of days and noticed how suddenly mushrooms keep popping up. While they spring up mostly under my conifer tree it's way more then usual and some years I don't see any at all. Not sure what kind of species the one above is. Tried to find a match on Wikipedia but no luck so far.

Although not really that clear in the picture, the one here (I think) is the common mushroom. The local wildlife already took some bites out of it. I had wood stacked there for making a new garden fence, covered it over with plastic, and when I removed the last panels of wood yesterday this thing popped up. Kinda makes sense since it was in the dark. Not that I'm anxious to find out by cooking and eating it.

August 13, 2010

Not 4 All Of Us.


There are indications that the YouTube user 'Anon2AllofUs' who made the video above, isn't enjoying the full support of anonymous. Last week I noticed comments here and there where certain people mentioned being or having been part of anonymous (4chan) and they not only deny the rhetoric against Zeitgeist but indicate that Anon2AllofUs is not part of that group. Here's what a couple of people had to say on YouTube;
You don't speak for all of anonymous, newfag. Go be an hero. lol.

Pardon me sir. "I am anonymous." I was actually there when that got started. Know the longcat photo from london? I'm actually in that photo. I'm a former-goon, YTMNDer. I remember when we all turned our backs on 4chan and went after ebaums, Scientology and just about anyone that looked at us cross-eyed. I don't know who you are but you had better stop using our name. You are not us. You are one guy with a grudge and your playing with fire.

Not exactly supportive of the channel in question that puts so much anti TZM and TVP material out there. To expand on the anonymous angle, there's even a moderator 29 on the international Zeitgeist forum who also uses the anonymous image and apparently has knowledge of the inner workings of 4chan. Note: he supports the Zeitgeist movement and took it upon himself to be a moderator. Here's what he had to say about Anon2 and his YouTube channel;
A member of anonymous cannot claim to be Anonymous just as one doesent simply fly into Mordor. The chans are aware of this issue and there is too much debate, many /b/tards have seen and enjoyed the movies. Let him troll and get his LOLZ out, in fact, you all should watch the one about Zeitgeist and how we are Communists, ITS GREAT! There is a sub documentary on how Martin Luthor King Jr. Is really a communist dissenter! Its GOLD I tell you!

I think at this point it's safe to say that the anonymous group isn't a homogeneous entity against Zeitgeist or the Venus Project. We must be careful not to judge the anonymous group on the basis of what Anon2 presents on his channel. It's obvious that he doesn't have support from each member and it might even work to his disadvantage if some hardcore folks from anonymous take offense to his ways. There was already some suspicion with me and with others that Anon2 didn't represent the movement and that he more or less hijacked the meme in order to be more effective in discrediting Zeitgeist. Grudges can go a long way so it seems. Maybe he should change the name of his channel to Not4AllOfUs.

August 12, 2010

Who Is Peter Joseph? (Behind The Scenes)


Charles Robinson put out a new video. A behind the scenes look from the original video 'Who is Peter Joseph?' which was contested on it's authenticity by a number of folks which I addressed in my previous post. As you can see it's pretty much proven that Charles Robinson made the original film. Peter Joseph is wearing the same cloths, it's the same room with all the equipment in the proper place and Charles is talking in the background with PJ responding. The video was also produced within a day which suggests that the maker had stock footage - easily accessible and ready to go. It does turn out that the last name 'Robinson' is fictitious, done so as a precautionary measure to protect his identity. Not unwise since PJ himself is practically attacked on a daily basis by fanatics on the internet.

One of the most peculiar matters is how many people went along with the accusation that Peter made the video himself. While PJ has a number of detractors these people also strongly contest the conspiracy theories in Zeitgeist 1, saying you need more factual data in order to come to a sound conclusion. Setting this notion aside, many contributors on the Conspiracy Science forums went along with the accusation, probably fueled by their dislike for PJ, the films or TZM. Perhaps they understand now that convictions based on pure emotion can also leads to false assumptions (conspiracy theories)? The Anonymous guys who started all of this still seem to struggle with the 'behind the scenes' video but these are not the kind of folks you can expect intellectual honesty from. Still, eventually even they will have to eat some humble pie.

August 11, 2010

TVP Critics & Their Antics 4

Well, pay close attention to what a person is saying, how he is saying it and when, can provide some insights. I made a few comments on the YouTube video 'Exposed: Who is Peter Joseph?' made by Anon13AllOfUs, one of those anonymous guys who make anti TZM and TVP videos. Just a moment ago, as of this typing, I received replies by Anon13 in the comment section of that YouTube video. Here's what he had to say;
No one's running away from you Ed V. But yeah, we're forward to this BS that Peter Joseph Merola makes up. He'll probably try to hire some actor to act like Charles Robinson. It's just pathetic.

One hint is that he knows my name (which I only present on my blog), meaning that he has knowledge of it. Links to my blog have only been made on a couple of blogs and forums, Conspiracy Science forums being one of them. More revealing is that Anon13 makes the suggestion that 'Peter Joseph would probably try to hire some actor to act like Charles Robinson.' While this is somewhat of a (personal) theory it's also convenient as a 'fail-safe' should Chris Robinson present more convincing material. Where that suggestion stands out for me is that I read it in identical phrasing over the CS forums in the topic 'Peter Joseph is Charles Robinson' just an hour earlier. The post was made by 'Billll' and here is an excerpt;
I'm awaiting for Peter Joseph Merola to make the next Charles Robinson video. I'm wondering if he's going to higher actors to play Charles or just put Charles voice out there possibly by someone else, Peter's brother or a computer modified voice and pretend that's Charles. Pete your found out your a conartist you made the videos...

Again there's the suggestion that Peter Joseph would hire an actor to cover things up. The thing is, I haven't seen others make such a suggestion. Just around the same time I also checked out the anti cultist blog and the post 'Who is Peter Joseph part 3.' In the comment section of that article again I found a post by 'Billll' and the following words he used;
I’m awaiting for Peter Merola to hire an actor or use a voice modify and pretend it’s Charles Robinson, it’s a bit to late Pete your full of shit con artist…

I think it's highly likely that 'Billll' is 'Anon13AllOfUs.' The suggestion, wording and overall criticism is strikingly similar and all those statements were written on the same day in the space of a few hours. More information on a person named 'Billll' can be found on this blog. It seems his real name is Bill Matriark and that he's no stranger to the Zeitgeist movement forums. Unsurprisingly Bill has been banned several times by the moderators yet kept coming back by creating false accounts. (This seems to be a repeating element.) Seeing all the things he wrote it's not hard to imagine that he holds somewhat of a grudge against the movement and one avenue of continuing with his criticism is his Anon13 13AllOfUs YouTube account. The last reply I got from Bill on that YouTube channel was this one;
1. We're not former TZM members.
2. Stop pretending to be someone else Ed V. : blogger . com / profile / 07812856583998219366
3. You just got bit in the ass by shame.

You're not former TZM members? What a joke, but by now it's pretty evident that you have zero credibility and can't be trusted.

TVP Critics & Their Antics 3


I wonder how long this video will be up since there are so many (false) assumptions and accusations that when the truth comes out, it will severely embarrass the creator(s) of this video and the people that supported it. Above is part 1 of 4 but basically the accusation is, is that Peter Joseph created the video named 'Who Is Peter Joseph?' and that the maker Charles Robinson is a non existent character and PJ himself.

While the creator of this video is 'Anon13AllOfUs,' who also uses the Anonymous meme to his advantage, anti cultist apparently is also involved. Coincidentally enough, anti cultist already addressed his suspicions that Peter Joseph was behind the Charles Robinson videos on the 16th of February with this blog post. Oddly enough some 6 months later a video comes out addressing the exact same issues followed up by another blog post from anti cultist confirming the statements in the anonymous video and the reference to his earlier 'work.' This is not the only occurrence where possible connections seem to exist between anti cultist and some anonymous YouTube users. Anti cultist made a blog post where he claims TZM and TVP are a cult, involving the work of Dr Robert J. Lifton. Again you can see a similar content in one of the anonymous videos. Lets also not forget that both anti cultist and the anonymous YouTube users both use the cult claim in a derogatory manner in order to smear the Zeitgeist movement. It's evident that there are many similarities and quite possibly they are working together.

Rather quickly comments have surfaced from Peter Joseph and Charles 'Robinson.' Here's what Peter Joseph had to say on the Zeitgeist forum about the video and the claims therein;
I'll email Charles and have him post something to put this bs to bed. He isn't in the movement btw and he wanted his identity to be confidential due to the overall tensions associated with me. I asked him to post a picture he took of us and he refused - as he is afraid it would hurt his career to be identified with such a controversial association... (his last name isn't actually Robinson)
Hilarious- I just saw the vid they posted and they point to the fact that one of the screen grabs shows my name logged into amazon. All the images given to Charles were from me, and yes finally sent them the day before he posted the vid online as he had been sitting on the edit - waiting to add them. I hope everyone here appreciates the bs I endure on a daily basis to do what I do. This new hate subculture is just incredible... and pathetic.

Charles 'Robinson' comments on the YouTube channel;
Listen you morons. I am a real person. My last name is actually not Robinson and your trophy issue with the amazon date is because he sent it to me the night before. I was waiting for the images for weeks. I'm also going to make the work copyright so you can't abuse it like you have. a-holes

Questioned if he had any footage of the interview where he was asking questions directly to Peter Joseph;
Yes, I do and I will making a video very soon to show you jackasses how painfully stupid you are.


I can't wait for the video to come out. Do you really think Peter Joseph would be that stupid to create a video where he pretends to be interviewed? He would ask a co-worker or a family member if he felt inclined to give an interview about himself. I'm confident that the future will show to what lengths some hate filled bigots will go in order to discredit Peter Joseph and the Zeitgeist movement.

Fresco On A Roll


Great talk by Jacque Fresco on helping people with addictions and the fact that everyone is conditioned in society.

August 10, 2010

Troll Guide

(From the Ubuntu Forums.)

----Humorous descriptions of various troll types----

THE MAJOR BREEDS

The Vulgar Troll. These, the crudest of all trolls, make no attempt to hide their species. Often, they make racist comments, or they may post porn and other spam. Vulgars usually confine their comments merely to primitive, profane, off-topic observations. When you log into the Really Profound Serious Philosophical Discussions board and see the post, "I smell my farts," you've spotted the Vulgar Troll. Other species of troll sometimes revert to this form when cornered.

The Deceptive or "Classic" Troll. More sophisticated but often easily identified and exposed, the Classic Troll gratifies his ego by pretending to be someone or something he or she is not. Classics make up elaborate stories about themselves, sometimes weaving some amounts of truth into their lies. As a web of lies is difficult to build with consistency, however, Classics are often "outed" by other forumites. When this happens, Classic Trolls have a bag of tricks to which they turn:

– Classic Troll Tactic Number 1: If the heat gets too much for you, claim it was all "a joke." In this way you can excuse any and all deceit by claiming people just weren't smart enough to "get" the humor of it.

– Classic Troll Tactic Number 2: Create another account, and log on pretending to be someone else, in order to show support for the Troll in Question (TiQ). These puppet accounts sometimes claim to be disinterested third parties. At other times they pretend to be "friends" of the TiQ.

– Classic Troll Tactic Number 3: When your lies paint you into a corner, claim that your little brother, or some unnamed friend, has commandeered your account and made you look foolish. This technique can also be applied in claiming that the puppet account(s) you created may not, in fact, be disinterested third parties or friends, but that they are your relatives ("little brother" is most common) only trying to help support you.

– Classic Troll Tactic Number 4: When nothing else works, claim that now, finally, you're telling the truth about all the lies you told before. Make up a fresh set of lies, and throw yourself on the mercy of the forumites.

– Classic Troll Tactic Number 5: When all else fails, claim to be leaving forever. Trolls who claim they are leaving never do, of course; you can bet that anyone who proclaims, "I'm never coming back here," will most certainly at least check back for responses, and probably will not be able to resist posting again.

– Classic Troll Tactic Number 6: Have a tantrum. When all their other tricks are exhausted, Classic Trolls will become angry and start shouting. Often they revert to Vulgar Trolls when this happens.

– Classic Troll Tactic Number 7: The insincere apology. Similar to Tactic 4, this involves pretending to repent for one's trolling and is accompanied often by great melodrama. Insincere troll apologists hope that they'll be forgiven if only they act disgusted enough with their own behavior.

The Contrarian Troll. A sophisticated breed, Contrarian Trolls frequent boards whose predominant opinions are contrary to their own. A forum dominated by those who support firearms and knife rights, for example, will invariably be visited by Contrarian Trolls espousing their beliefs in the benefits of gun control. It is important to distinguish between dissenters and actual Contrarian Trolls, however; the Contrarian is not categorized as a troll because of his or her dissenting opinions, but due to the manner in which he or she behaves:

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number One: The most important indicator of a poster's Contrarian Troll status is his constant use of subtle and not-so-subtle insults, a technique intended to make people angry. Contrarians will resist the urge to be insulting at first, but as their post count increases, they become more and more abusive of those with whom they disagree. Most often they initiate the insults in the course of what has been a civil, if heated, debate to that point.

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number Two: Constant references to the forum membership as monolithic. "You guys are all just [descriptor]." "You're a lynch mob." "You all just want to ridicule anyone who disagrees with you."

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number Three: Intellectual dishonesty. This is only a mild indicator that is not limited to trolls, but Contrarians display it to a high degree. They will lie about things they've said, pull posts out of context in a manner that changes their meanings significantly, and generally ignore any points for which they have no ready answers.

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number Four: Accusing the accusers. When confronted with their trolling, trolls immediately respond that it is the accusers who are trolls (see Natural Predators below). Often the Contrarian will single out his most vocal opponent and claim that while he can respect his other opponents, this one in particular is beneath his notice.

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number Five: Attempts to condescend. The Contrarian will seek refuge in condescending remarks that repeatedly scorn his or her critics as beneath notice – all the while continuing to respond to them.

– Contrarian Warning Sign Number Six: One distinctive mark of Contrarian Trolls is that every thread in which they dissent quickly devolves into a debate about who is trolling whom. In the course of such a debate the Contrarian will display many of the other Warning Signs mentioned above.

The YerATroll. YerATrolls are those whining forumites who devote a tremendous amount of time and energy complaining about the tremendous amount of time an energy expended by Troll Bashers and Angry Forumites on the practice of troll-hunting. A self-righteous and hypocritical breed, YerATrolls spend all their time pointing fingers at everyone but trolls, petulantly demanding that their opinions be granted the significance the YerATroll believes they deserve. YerATrolls often start threads excoriating others for troll-hunting, all the while completely oblivious to the fact that they're engaging in trolling by picking fights with everyone else. One of the most ill-tempered of troll species, YerATrolls are characterized by a childish need for attention disguised as cynical nobility and pretensions of being "above it all."

The Agenda Troll. Agenda trolls are those participants who join a forum specifically to pursue an agenda of their own – often a feud or grudge with another member, or perhaps a dispute with some party not participating in that forum. When a flame war erupts on another board, for example, Agenda Trolls will follow their opponents to other forums in order to continue the spat.

– Some Agenda Trolls are subject-matter oriented. An Agenda Troll who thinks Self-Defense Instructor X is a fraud, or who feels he has been ripped off or otherwise dealt with unfairly by Instructor X, will visit forums devoted to self-defense and martial arts in order to spread his or her negative opinion of Instructor X.

– Agenda Trolls may also be of the milder Spam Agenda subspecies; these are Trolls who join a board specifically to advertise some venture of their own. They are not often troublesome, though their shameless plugging is met with varying degrees of irritation.

The Sophist Troll. Sophist Trolls, or "philotrolls," fancy themselves Enlightened Philosophers or Learned Experts of the highest order. Often well educated, Philotrolls are capable of speaking intelligently on a number of topics, and when the spirit moves them they can be worthwhile forum participants. Unfortunately, Sophist Trolls are an extremely hostile and intolerant species.

When confronted by opinions with which they do not agree – particularly when they do not see any means of successfully arguing their contrary views – Sophists resort (repeatedly) to a variety of intellectually dishonest tactics. Most often, this is characterized by an overly snide, condescending, patronizing attitude. Philotrolls consider anyone with whom they do not agree to be "immature," and are fond of quoting that old saw that "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

When cornered they are quick to resort to personal attacks. A philotroll's bag of rhetorical tricks includes a variety of transparent ploys, such as willfully misinterpreting the opponent's words, committing Straw Man fallacies, accusing his or her opponents of engaging in the very tactics used by the philotroll, and so forth.

When engaging in their sophistry, philotrolls are among the most hypocritical and aggravating of trollkind.

The Affected Profundity Troll. A mutant subspecies of Sophist Trolls, Affected Profundity Trolls post endless pages of pretentious drivel that is intended to appear wise, but which generally makes little sense (if any). Affected Profundity Trolls enjoy asking themselves questions, sometimes answering them and sometimes leaving them hanging, for they believe this looks intelligent and lends an aura of mystery to their incoherent ramblings. Affected Profundity Trolls aspire to become Sophist Trolls, but lack the intelligence necessary to make the leap.

The Don King Troll. Related to Affected Profundity Trolls, Don King Trolls spout gibberish in the hope that they'll either bore or confuse to death those with whom they disagree. The average Don King Troll is "a pursuitist who gromulates his adversarial computerists with height defining formulations to the disinterestingest adjunct."

The Artistic Troll. A higher species of Classic Troll, Artistic Trolls are intelligent individuals who understand the subtle art of trolling, and who do what they do specifically to make others look foolish. Often employing the techniques of Deceptive Trolls, Artistics will string forumites along until some point in time designated by their own desires, at which point they will reveal the ploy, admit that it was a ploy, and laugh at everyone for being stupid enough to fall for it. Artistic Trolls delight in sowing discord, but do it in a highly developed and fully aware manner. They do not care if they are despised, and do not seek the approval of forum participants. Chaos is their only goal, and preferably chaos with a humorous bent to it. Without a doubt, this is the most dangerous species.

The Bitter Troll. Bitter Trolls are a curious cross-species. They can be trolls of any breed in their larval stages, but become Bitters after their previous activities are seen for what they were. What sets these trolls apart from other classifications is their behavior after they have been spotted and labeled as trolls. Angry, frustrated, and resentful about being "outed," the Bitter Troll will wage a campaign of indignant complaints intended to focus attention away from the troll and on whomever is responsible for identifying the creature. Often, a troll mutates into a Bitter just prior to becoming a Vulgar.

The Bustr. Bustrs are obsessive Bitters by whom you could practically set your watch. A Bustr never forgets, never forgives, and holds a grudge until the day it dies. Also a variant of Agenda trolls, Bustrs typically move from forum to forum complaining about the objects of their ire, often cutting and pasting age-old diatribes that have little meaning to most of their audiences. Most Bustrs are relatively incoherent, though a few of the more lucid ones are potentially dangerous stalkers.

The Mutt. Alternatively known as Dogs or Yapping Dogs. Mutts are pack animals characterized by their loud barking – vociferous, repetitive, usually ignorant and irrational criticism of anything and anyone they do not like. Mutts frequently become obsessed with a few or even a single poster with whom they disagree, often for purely personal reasons. Like a dog gnawing at a bone, the Mutt will attack the object of its ire over and over again, making a fool of itself in the eyes of those who understand such childish behavior for what it is. Often one Mutt in a group of Yapping Dogs will act as the alpha of the pack, while the others chime in to voice their mindless (but loud) support for their leader's opinions.

The Holy Misroller (HM). Holy Misrollers are those online forum participants who give Christians (or other religious adherents) a bad name. The HM believes himself or herself to be a Christian (etc.) and will generally tell anyone who'll listen about his or her faith in God and in Jesus. At the same time, however, the HM will display decidedly un-Christian behavior, frequently making an *** out of him- or herself. The HM is often characterized by a great deal of anger and hostility. The breed tends to lash out at anyone and anything not in keeping with its incorrectly narrow worldview. The saddest part about HMs is that they do not truly understand Christianity at all.

The Marketing Genius. A Marketing Genius is absolutely convinced that you are profiting from your participation in an Internet forum. If you have a link or a graphic block in you signature, the Marketing Genius just knows that this is your subtle attempt to assert your hypnotic powers on other bulletin board participants, luring them with the siren song of your complex and inscrutable advertising of your site. It does not matter to the Marketing Genius that forum members have been placing links and pictures in their signatures since the ability to do so was first created. Having never created anything of value themselves, Marketing Geniuses have only their bitter envy and their firm belief that you are a Dot Com Billionaire to motivate and occupy them.

The Honorable Nitwit. Honorable Nitwits absolutely love to speak about honor. This breed invokes the concepts of honor, integrity, humility, and other traits straight from the Boy Scout Oath more often than a Klingon warrior on anti-depressants. Honorable nitwits are convinced that everyone around them suffers from a lack of honor – an idea they thoroughly fail to understand in attempting to use its lack to smear others.

The Old Warrior. The Old Warrior has been there and done that. He has little time to spare for those who have not been there and done that. The Old Warrior has been there and done that to such an extent, in fact, that he is always right. Anyone who disagrees with him, therefore, is wrong by definition and should shut the hell up. Old Warriors place a very high premium on one's credentials relevant to the subject matter discussed – failing to understand the logical fallacy of appeals to authority.

The Forum Cultist. Forum cultists are extremely proud of the incredible Internet communities to which they belong. They pride themselves on the exclusivity of those communities and actually believe that "it can't happen to them" – "it," of course, being their own banishment. Forum cultists place a very high premium on groupthink and generally react to differing opinions with outrage, banning all who dare to speak them.

The Pretend-novice: Has an agenda to push but pretends to not to understand arguments against said agenda in order to push the agenda further. By appearing to be a new user, she can get away with combativeness without appearing aggressive or hostile and can always excuse any poor arguments as ignorance or genuine inquiry. (credit: aysiu)

August 9, 2010

TZM/TVP Critic 'Anti Cultist' Side Steps

Well, I was expecting a truthful and revealing reply from 'anti cultist' (Paul Jones?) regarding my previous post exposing him as a troll. Nah, who am I kidding. I fully expected him to side step and skirt the issue of him trolling the Zeitgeist forums. When caught with their pants down frauds often turn and run away instead of facing the music and you only have to read up on anti cultists blog to see that he's not the type to admit any wrongdoing. He's pretty good at accusing others of foul play, I can tell you that straight up. Providing details that don't work in his favor? Well anti cultist has a bit of a problem with that so it seems. So, no big blog post response. Just a comment in his original response (about me). Lets take a look at that than.

OK the guys done another retarded response to this post attempting to yet again label me as a person who did not join the movement with good intentions, again he has no evidence who I was in the movement or has seen any of the posts I made there. Yet he thinks that because I am now anti TZM this means my intentions werent sincere initially, this is flawed logic because people do do 180′s in real life son, have you ever heard of religious people becoming atheist? It happens in real life, and any which way you try to twist it about me is disingenuous and lies from you.


First of, often people's opinions change incrementally. What you're saying is possible but still quite often people retain a partial support of their initial conviction. The essence of my argument was - is that matters most of the time are not totally black or white. There are many shades of grey and often people move along those tones over time. With you, after researching your blog, I saw nothing of the sort. While you claim to have been (partially) positive of the Zeitgeist movement, after examination of your contributions on various internet venues it becomes clear that there's nothing left. Right now it's pitch black and that in turn makes me wonder if there was any light to begin with.
No, I don't have any evidence who you were in the movement and I haven't seen any posts you made on the Zeitgeist forums with whichever name you used. I do have evidence in your own admission that you used at least 3 different names on the ZG forum. That qualifies as something tangible, right? Why do you have a problem with showing the names you used? That could confirm your claim that you were a pro TZM kinda guy. You got nothing to hide, right?

You are not even worth a serious debate because of simple facts like this showing how stupid your argument is.
What he also did was take the multiple account thing out of context, I intially had one account for over a year, as the forum began to twist and turn into a shit place I created another account to test the waters and see how they would react to my different opinions. It wasnt to troll it was to test how they would react if they did not know it was me.
Simples…experiment completed and I found out that the movement was gimped.


Ah, a sociology experiment after all. Just "testing how they would react if they did not know it was me." Dude, that still falls within the definition of a troll.
"A troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response. [snip] Trolling is a game about identity deception, albeit one that is played without the consent of most of the players."
See? The one that is (mentally) limping here is you, but lets go back to the post you made over at the CS forums.

I had many different accounts on there over the year + gone by. I created a complete agreeing character who was all into the movement, then I created a final character who outright disagreed and said so. Which do you think got into trouble the most ? And might I add the disagreeable character was threatened with banning and being watched from the top level admins and mods. I also had a famous character in their movement, in fact one of the most respected members they ever had, talk about them lapping up people who agree with them.


Call me strange, but when you say that you 'created' a complete agreeing character who was all into the movement, I get the impression that this is a pure falsification, an act of fraud. Is it that strange then that I (and others) question your sincerity when you claim you were a pro TZM guy? Do you see how you muddied your own water?
And what about the 'famous character,' was "he" part of the experiment as well or were you just having a bit of fun? No matter how you twist and turn this, the fact remains that you were actively, by your own admission, trolling the forum - pushing peoples buttons, hoping to get a reaction. I call that evidence that questions your motives, and this puts a whole different light on your criticism of the Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project. It turns out you weren't participating in the process of a movement, you were manipulating it. And that anti cultist is an entirely different situation.

Also he bounces around the cult label happily without addressing any of the points or the posts made about it, this guys a lamer he is using arguments that have been refuted dozens of times by many different people to argue his cult innocence. He provides no science, he has no evidence he just has his own claims, seriously not worth my time and hardly worthy of another blog addressing his nonsense.


I stressed a couple of times before that when using the term cult loosely, it can apply to many if not all the group structures in our society. (Btw, ironically enough, outside the realm of TZM and TVP, you don't make any cult claims for any groups!) What's there to stop me from making the claim that all the guys over at the CS forums belong to a cult. Hell, you all act in a similar manner, have the same type of criticism, you have some dominant vocal guys (leaders). I'm gonna label you the CS cult. Luckily for you, my definition of a cult is somewhat different. But lets get to the heart of the matter. The real reason is not the question if TZM is a cult, the real reason is that by calling TZM a cult you created a method of discrediting the movement. Seeing how you're actively engaged in digging up any dirt possible, collaborating with other notorious critics, the cult claim is just another extension in debunking the Zeitgeist movement. Your actions culminate to nothing less then deliberate anti TZM/TVP propaganda.

When you address any point I have actually made Ed V I might consider you worth a debate, for now you’re just firing blanks. Oh and yeah Ed all those quotes of mine you’ve posted I still stand by, because I think the venus project is a pile of shit and anyone who blindly believes in it like you I also think are retarded and lacking critical thinking skills.


Not to worry anti cultist. I don't expect a straight answer from you regarding your deceptive trolling exploits or the names you used over at the Zeitgeist forums. A troll wants to hide out in the dark. Chances are that you would only incriminate yourself even further so the best thing you can do and are doing right now is to skirt the issue and avoid further exposure by any means. The truth doesn't work for guys like you. Hopefully that much is clear for the objective reader. Besides, if I would accommodate you on every demand you had you would probably still remain silent on the issues I raised. There's always that possibility that a black propaganda monkey like yourself works that way. Having said that I might address some other points you raised but until then I'm perfectly satisfied with informing the public about you and the shit you're trying to pull with posts like these.

August 7, 2010

TZM/TVP Critic 'Anti Cultist' Exposed

This a response to 'anti cultist' post; "Quick response to Plan B From The Bacardi Room." I don't address all of his points because half way in my response, after doing some research, I found something that warrants no further waste of my time and energy. Instead anti cultist has some explaining to do since he exposes himself not as an objective researcher or innocent participant, but as an outright troll. Anti cultist's words are everywhere quoted.

There are other forms of cult in operation, cults of personality, cults of financial gain, political cults, there are varying kinds and each have their own particular agendas, most of which have a purpose in that the leadership is out to gain something from either its membership or the actions its membership directly do for them.

Well geesh anti cultist, to how many group structures does that apply in our society? Not that I agree that your definition automatically applies to the Zeitgeist Movement but using your definition many groups would fall into the category of a cult. Political parties, Teabaggers, church-goers, fans of a sports team. Do you go about calling all of them cult members as well? Nah, you just picked TZM and label it a cult because it's convenient. You do it because you're a debunker and want to see the movement disappear from its current format. That's your motivation for taking the cult-angle. Period.

Also if you can provide me with science venus project themselves has conducted to verify that their claims are factual, inclusive of the white papers and sources they have used, as well as the scientific experiments they have conducted with all their results and test conditions. Then show me the peer review process and full disclosure they have carried out with these documents and tests they have carried out. Of course here is where you will fail, because as everyone already knows there are none, they have none, and talking about other peoples science and conducting your own science are not the same thing.

What kind of science do you seek? Fresco and Meadows in a lab doing experiments? The Venus Project foremost is a social project, not a scientific one. Sure, TVP borrows science and papers from the world and shapes it into a social proposal and format. Complaining about that there isn't any hardcore science done by Fresco himself is relevant in this regard, how? Oh wait, you take this approach because you seek a method of criticizing TVP. Bravo anti cultist! The Venus Project, although started many years ago under a different name, basically just got rolling when Addendum came out. It is a work in progress! At this point it seeks membership in order to get the momentum going. Just be patience, with enough expertise, help and support I'm sure some real science can done in the near future. Until then, I don't see it the responsibility of TVP to meet every demand an impatient critic or debunker has who has no intention of helping out in the first place.

It is also disingenuous to read an introduction to a blog and bypass its critical content and then proceed to make a complete subjective analysis on it without any knowledge of it and not attempt to address its core critiques. Your argument here is weak since you present the intro page and do not present your readers with the actual data and facts presented as to why the cult mentality has been observed throughout the interactions with their leadership and membership. You fail to present your viewers with the actual posts given as to why they are acting like a cult. This is just weak Ed and you are simply biasing and prompting your readers into your own particular train of thought and not the actual objective multi faceted story and evidence.

Oh, I'm sorry anti cultist. I thought mentioning your posts called 'why this blog' and 'personal experiences' captured the essence of your beef with Zeitgeist quite well. Many, if not all of the elements of your critique against Zeitgeist are plainly visible in those posts. The thing also is; all you guys over at the CS forums who write pieces (which you also present on your blog) have many complaints. Addressing each and every one of them takes up some time. That is something I'm working on. No I don't consider my approach disingenuous. I clearly linked your blog and posts for everyone to see. I also addressed the cult claim, which I think is a load of bollox.

What the writer neglects to tell his readers here is in my blog I already state I was pro TVP/TZM and was very interested in the movement initially and was a very well versed and active member of the movement and forum. This again is another disingenuous attempt to undermine my original intentions of joining the movement and reasons for leaving the movement. Since the user has no idea exactly who I was on the movements forum he 100% can not verify his statements and it is merely speculative accusations with zero credit to them. Fail again Ed try again.


Ok, I'll try again. The thing is anti cultist, you claim to have been pro TVP/TZM yet I haven't seen one post over on the CS forum in that fashion. While opinions can change it's very unusual for people to do a 180 in this regard. Most of your contributions go like this;
(From 5 months ago)
Everything you need to know about this potential cult, including its refusal for financial transparency with evidence of dialogues between a member and Roxanne Meadows. The identity of Peter Joseph, The legal dispute and failing of trademarking of RBE by the venus project with documents, and other important facets they dont like discussing on their official forums. Ex members spill the beans on the inner workings and information not many know.

Ah thanks, yes sorry, did'nt mean to pester you guys with shit you already were aware of. Glad that people are reading this stuff anyway, these cabbages need throwing in the compost heap with the rest of the zany carroty cults.

That goes for the old fart Jacque as well. And before you try to defend grandad, he just plays with his kids toys, films them, and then uses other researchers materials to validate his thunerbird model world.

As a long time member who played the agree and disagree character I found out first hand what they liked and disliked, and what they did about your posts and accounts.


That last one made me go; 'hmm?'
That's begs the question were you really a genuine pro TZM/TVP to begin with?
But wait anti cultist, I can do better. . . . . . . . .

. . . . . .

. . . . .

. . . .

. . .

. .

.

Lets take a look at this post shall we, from the CS forums in the topic "What makes the Venus Project different from any other cult?" (Page 13.)
"You don't go in there calling them a cult and that they are all stupid. Apparently I am better at communicating my points to them than you. Since I have been one of the most vocal critics on there for over a year, I think my situation proves you wrong."

and this is not insulting ?

Considering you have absolutely no idea who i was on the forum.

I had many different accounts on there over the year + gone by.

I created a complete agreeing character who was all into the movement, then I created a final character who outright disagreed and said so.

Which do you think got into trouble the most ?
And might I add the disagreeable character was threatened with banning and being watched from the top level admins and mods.

I am well aware of how it works there ed.

Your experience and opinion on the matter is no more valuable than mine.

I also had a famous character in their movement, in fact one of the most respected members they ever had, talk about them lapping up people who agree with them.


So, were you really a pro TZM/TVP guy like you pretend out to be? I don't think so. Your post above is your own admission of trolling the Zeitgeist forum and creating characters in order to get responses. You should have mentioned that in your personal experiences blog post instead of telling stories that covered your own ass. The post above shows you're were one misleading s.o.b. over at the Zeitgeist forums. You had an agreeable character, a disagreeable character and a famous character?
Lets take a look at your words again Dr Jekyll;

What the writer neglects to tell his readers here is in my blog I already state I was pro TVP/TZM and was very interested in the movement initially and was a very well versed and active member of the movement and forum. This again is another disingenuous attempt to undermine my original intentions of joining the movement and reasons for leaving the movement. Since the user has no idea exactly who I was on the movements forum he 100% can not verify his statements and it is merely speculative accusations with zero credit to them. Fail again Ed try again.


Who is being disingenuous here? We have one version were you claim to be a (former) stand up member of the movement and forum, yet we also have a version where you admit creating different characters in order to solicit responses (a.k.a. trolling). Which one are you?
You know what never seizes to amaze me? Guys complaining about a forum, its moderators and rules while they were the ones adding to the chaos in the first place! Such people are pure hypocrites if you ask me. And you actually wonder why people get banned from a forum? Your actions and the actions of other trolls contributed to a forum imposing restrictions.
Yes, I questioned your sincerity and it turns out it was rightly so. Maybe you should give out the names you used on the Zeitgeist forums so that I (and others) can examine your conduct in greater detail. And don't try to sell your trolling exploits as some sociology study you were on. At this point all suspicion lies on you and your behavior which is plainly visible in all your contributions. I see no reason to address other points you raised at this time. Clearly the issue has become your motivation since you admit to having misled other contributors and moderators of the Zeitgeist forums by creating various disingenuous personalities.



Donath's definition of trolling;
Trolling is a game about identity deception, albeit one that is played without the consent of most of the players. The troll attempts to pass as a legitimate participant, sharing the group's common interests and concerns; the newsgroups members, if they are cognizant of trolls and other identity deceptions, attempt to both distinguish real from trolling postings, and upon judging a poster a troll, make the offending poster leave the group. Their success at the former depends on how well they — and the troll — understand identity cues; their success at the latter depends on whether the troll's enjoyment is sufficiently diminished or outweighed by the costs imposed by the group.
Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community. Furthermore, in a group that has become sensitized to trolling — where the rate of deception is high — many honestly naïve questions may be quickly rejected as trollings. This can be quite off-putting to the new user who upon venturing a first posting is immediately bombarded with angry accusations. Even if the accusation is unfounded, being branded a troll is quite damaging to one's online reputation.

August 6, 2010

TVP Critics & Their Antics 2

Well, didn't take long for my posts to get noticed by some guys from the Conspiracy Science forums, although to be honest I expected them a bit sooner. (Did leave links all over the place.) The thread involving my blog is called: 'Another asinine pro TVP/TZM blog defending voiceofracism.' I'll get back to the 'asinine' part later but it is true I probably said somethings that upset certain people and it's only natural that they take up a defensive position. Whether that's righteous is another matter.
Yes I defended Devan Evans' blogpost criticizing some players over at the CS forums, because in my opinion the critique is perfectly justified. His contribution showed that some folks weren't as squeaky clean as they pretended to be. Like Evans I come to the conclusion that some people made a mess of things themselves and should look inward instead of blaming the Zeitgeist forum moderators, Peter Joseph or the movement itself. It's that simple.

Quick recap of some of the people I (and Devan Evans) addressed. Nanos, seems like a fairly decent bloke from what I have gathered yet couldn't stop criticizing the movement on a regular basis. Most striking of all, from my perspective, the moment he got banned on the ZG forum he pops up over the CS forum and lets face it, that place is already known to harbor fierce critics. In a way some people would look on that as another justification.
Thanks to Ed W. it's obvious now that he isn't Ed B - another guy who had a beef with the Zeitgeist movement. I'm Ed V. so I think we can all agree that it is a little bit confusing at times. So Ed W., relax. I did leave the connection unverified and open to questioning.
'Anti cultist,' another fierce critic, armchair sociologist and hypocrite in my book. Complains on his blog that groups (like Zeitgeist) are in fact a cult yet also clearly states that people band together for survival. Complains that the Zeitgeist forums took another approach while he was fully aware of the endeavors of 'anti-members' out to create chaos, did not focus on that or the fact that it drove some moderators to tears. Complains that the behavior of many Zeitgeist members and supporters leaves much to be desired yet a quick glance over at the CS forums will show you that he spews the most foulest shit himself.

Asinine
–adjective
1. foolish, unintelligent, or silly; stupid: It is surprising that supposedly intelligent people can make such asinine statements.
2. of or like an ass: asinine obstinacy; asinine features.

Really? I'm being asinine for pointing out what I perceive to be fallacies? When I see a topic like this one over at the CS forums called 'Jacque Fresco: Deadbeat Dad,' I don't get the impression that you're doing objective (background) research. Seeing such a topic where some folks make some shocking comments give me the impression that it is simply character assassination.
Those folks are way beyond the point of objective analysis. You've reached the point where people (Zeitgeist supporters) view you as a debunking collective and rightly so. I raise the question; 'how did you get there?,' because some people pretend to be some kind of sociologist yet the introspective angle is hardly if not at all present. It's seemingly always easier to blame someone else. . .
But now that the pleasantries are over, I'll see if I can counter some 'main points.' And who knows, maybe I have some demands of my own. Quid pro quo, right?

August 5, 2010

Greedy Grabbers 4


Take a look at this mugshot. Well, it isn't really a mugshot but it could very well be. Meet director J. van Praet who got fired last February over a conflict with the company council. He headed an institution for the handicapped but got into conflict over an interest free loan, amounting up to €550.000. The board didn't like that. Just recently it became public knowledge (from the companies annual report) that the former director got off pretty well. He received a "golden handshake" worth 200K, a severance worth another 200K and another bonus worth 40K. I'm sure Mr. Praet is a happy man. Do you think he can explain why healthcare is getting more expensive each year?

August 4, 2010

Tea Party Misnomers


Sometimes I watch video's like the one above about American culture and what's going over there in that country. The Tea Party movement is one element and embodies some of the ideals of the conservative right. They started out in recent years to oppose the Obama administration. There are some peculiarities from my perspective. I realize that some things are said in the heat of the moment but some allegations directed towards the President are just plain false. The sad part is that I get the impression that some people truly believe in what they are saying.

First let me explain what my political affiliations are. I'm a moderate left and voted for the Dutch Labour Party for many years. While I suppose that will lead some people to conclude that I'm a hardcore socialist or communist, nothing could be farther from the truth. Because I'm also a democrat and firmly believe in free elections. As such I find socialist countries such as Cuba, North Korea, China and to a lesser extend Venezuela dictatorships. Labour Parties in Europe, once you get into the heart of the matter, aren't as socialist as you might think. True, they stand up for the right of the workers and the lower and middle class but beyond that they are for 'big business' and don't shy away from protecting those interests. European socialist (Labour) parties don't fit in the same category as the countries I mentioned. They are still capitalists.

What I see quite often is that members of Tea Party movement claim that Obama is a socialist or communist. That's quite remarkable since if you would put Obama on the political scale of my own country, he would be more right-wing than our right wing party VVD. Makes you wonder why my country, Holland, hasn't turned into communist state by now. Of course we look at politics through different glasses but pointing out the differences might enable you to examine your own. Obama isn't a socialist or a communist, he's still very much for the free market system and capitalism. He implements some social changes that benefit the lower and middle class and lets be honest about, some (selfish) people who basically don't want to pay taxes or pick up the bill in domestic policies have a problem with that.

The biggest misnomer I've seen is that Obama is somehow a Nazi or national socialist. This suggestion is somehow associated with the mistaken idea that the Nazi's were socialists. In fact, they weren't. It's really remarkable because most Europeans wouldn't dare to make such correlations. Some Americans seem to have less inhibitions. Lets not forget that the Nazi's took it upon themselves to fight the communist Soviet Union. If the Nazi's were that left, why would they fight the (left) communist ideology that fiercely? The truth of the matter is that the Nazi's belonged to the far right in politics. Just read the objective Wikipedia article in order to see what they were all about.

This is going to upset some people but on a political scale the Tea Party movement is closer to national socialism than they might think. By protecting their own interests, liberty - the free market system - paying little to no taxes - protecting their own property and money, you will get leaders who do the same thing. These leaders will protect their own interests as well and that includes their amassed wealth, stock portfolios, billions of dollars and so on. Like you they are not going to share their wealth but continue to expand and protect that. There comes a point where your interests and the interests of your leaders collide because like you, the rich leaders of your country have no inclination to make things better if it means losing their advantage. In a way that's already what you're seeing now in American politics and the Tea Party movement.
My advice is to look at yourself and want you want in politics, very importantly, next try to place yourself in the shoes of a politician and pretend that you're him or her. Than try to discover where you collide with the interest of other people. See what kind of difference there is between you and your leaders. What we need is not political turmoil, what we need is understanding. Understand the system that you are in participating. Understand what you want and how it fits in the bigger picture. That really is the step to make this world a better place, for yourself and for everyone else.

Know thyself.

August 3, 2010

Thoughts On Wikileaks & Conspiracy Theories

It's been all over the news the last few weeks. WikiLeaks released classified military files about the war in Afghanistan. Lots of commentators stepped up on television and in the newspapers condemning such an act and that it put the soldiers, Afghan collaborators and informants at risk. Personally I have to give that part of the story the green light. Releasing information that puts certain people directly at risk and in mortal jeopardy is of course not the route to take. As much as I want the truth, getting that at the expensive of human life is not something I, and presumably others, want.
Having said that I also think, and this is the other side of the mental coin, releasing classified files is also a good thing since it shows you what the exact truth really is and how your government really works. It shows you how much you're being deceived at times and how much corruption there really is in the world by your elected officials. You start to realize how much you're being fooled and hopefully you'll also get the notion that things should be better in the world. I realize that at this point people are at a crossroad, they can totally lose faith in the system or they can slowly work to make things better in a constructive way.

WikiLeaks will probably also fuel new conspiracy theories, something some folks will adhere to while others would oppose. Conspiracy theories are tricky. From my perspective some are totally unfounded or false, some could have a grain of truth in them (like in myths) and some can actually be spot on. It depends on the information and how factual it really is. You would have to find that balance between being skeptical and what could be possible based on confirmed data. Most of all you would have to be objective and this is something most people on this planet have a hard time getting at when factors such as nationalism, patriotism and other ideologies such as religion come into play.
Those folks that strongly oppose conspiracy theories, I have some bad news for you. There were cases where they were proven to be true. That is basically the reason why conspiracy theories continue to surface. In the past stories have surfaced that were shockingly true and showed the misleading if not criminal machinations of the people in charge. Again, the confirmed stories that show the workings of the people in power fuel those theories that have not been proven. Lets just look at a few.

The Pentagon Papers was a top-secret United States Department of Defense history of the United States' political-military involvement in Vietnam from 1945 to 1967. Those files were copied by Daniel Ellsberg and show that the Pentagon Papers demonstrated, among other things, that the Johnson Administration had systematically lied, not only to the public but also to Congress, about a subject of transcendent national interest and significance.

Project MKULTRA, or MK-ULTRA, was the code name for a covert, illegal CIA human research program, run by the Office of Scientific Intelligence. Basically what the CIA did was experiment on their own citizens they swore to protect just to get information about how it would be possible to control someones mind. What's important here is the willingness by certain people in positions of power and the intelligence community to totally throw every human right out the window.

1973 Chilean coup d'état, the 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état, the 1953 Iranian coup d'état. Anyway, you can find more of those here. What that shows is that the United States, the beacon of democracy and the home of the brave, sponsors and makes possible, the overthrowing of other foreign democratically elected governments because they wanted to protect their own (national) security.

You wonder why conspiracy theories originate?
Because people in positions of power have been shown, and proven, to be utterly corrupt.

WikiLeaks is on a precarious road. I'm sure there are some people that will be happy if it disappeared tomorrow. Me? I say let them go on, yet at the same time I hope they will be careful not to put some person who is just another cog in the wheel die for the people that put them there in the first place. Let truth prevail and may it lay enlighten those that want a better world.

Sketchzoid #10

August 2, 2010

TVP Critics & Their Antics

I've been reading up on yet another blog, this time from a guy who is a Zeitgeist supporter. Quite refreshing, and revealing I must say since some people who criticize TZM and TVP are not so innocent as they pretend to be. Although they would probably see it in a different light. Devan Evans made a post here, laying out some of the antics the critics pull. A number of critics have come together at the Conspiracy Science forum, that's also where you can find many topics and posts criticizing Peter Joseph, Fresco and even other Zeitgeist forum regulars.

You might consider asking yourself how come they have such intimate knowledge of individuals who visit the Zeitgeist forum. The answer is quite simple. They have been members of the forum and some continue to monitor developments. Upon further examination you'll find out that some of the critics were in fact members of the Zeitgeist Movement but were banned from the forum, often for misconduct. Maybe it's me and my conspiracy theories but I already see a pattern emerging here. But lets take a look at a few circumstances that led to a removal from the forum.

"Well, Fresco wasn’t doing a good job with PR, so they got Peter in, he did a better job, so whats wrong with suggesting they get someone else in to do a better job, the same thing is happening with mods, they have been upgraded."

Written by a guy named Nanos who seems completely unaware that Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows are currently on a world lecture tour across the globe promoting the Venus Project. (I visited the lecture in Holland myself.) You may be inclined to think this is a small transgression and I would agree with you if it's one time event. People can make a mistake or have a bad day and write something in an emotional mood. It becomes something entirely different when you make cheap shots on a regular basis and this is what apparently transpired with this particular member which lead to his banning.

"In fact I met him in London after a lecture in passing and the VERY first thing he did was attack me on the 911 issue – this after a 4 hour lecture/talk about TZM… that is all he could come up with… pointless."

Those are Peter Joseph's comments about a former member named Ed, who apparently spend about 15 months complaining on the Zeitgeist forum why the movie Zeitgeist 1 sucked. I don't know if this is the same person as Edward Winston, another vocal critic of the Zeitgeist Movement. In any case I find the behavior of this person disturbing. Spending all that time on a forum disagreeing and then going to a lecture only to confront the person who you have a beef with over matters in cyberspace, is what? Obsessive maybe?

"One post which was made towards myself was by Edward Scissorhands saying that “This dumb fuck who makes youtube videos with a blue glow in the dark dildo microphone thinks he can do what scientists havent managed to do for erm a century.""

Edward Scissorhands is none other then "anti cultist" who has a blog that I addressed in a previous post. (You just have to click on his profile over at the conspiracyscience forum which links directly to his blog.) Above is quite a different tone than what he displays on his blog contributions. I wonder, did he use that type of language on the Zeitgeist forum? Call me strange but that is exactly the type of language that will get you banned. If you don't show any respect, you're not going to receive it either. That's simply how the world works.

Many critics (who flock over to the conspiracyscience forum) seem to have had a direct altercation with the Zeitgeist Movement. The question is; who's to blame for that? Are the moderators of the Zeitgeist forum really that bad or do some contributors just behave badly - think they can do and say anything they want? Lets take a look at a segment of the forum rules which are common throughout the internet and state;

"1. Please treat everyone with respect. Insulting, derogatory and/or any other disrespectful discourse is inappropriate and unacceptable.
2. Please do not engage in personal attacks (arguing with and/or attacking the person instead of addressing the topic) and try not to respond to such attacks, except to redirect the discussion to the topic."


Again, call me strange but from what I've seen some critics had no inclination whatsoever to discuss matters concerning Zeitgeist in a respectful manner. It also makes me wonder why they joined in the first place. I sometimes think they didn't join to converse, they came there to argue. Now, I'm going to divert from the approach that Devan Evans took who treated this subject with the utmost care. I think some of the critics are just plain morons. Yes you read it right. I don't like to use curse words but sometimes there isn't a better way to describe it.
Some folks are apparently under the impression that they can say and do anything the feel like. The freedom on the internet and their giant ego's also somehow gives them the impression that they are not at fault or had anything to do with an altercation. Ego's that are too rigid to look at themselves or the behavior they displayed that led them to getting banned. No, they think it is the fault of someone else, go on a tantrum and play the blame-game. The moderators on the Zeitgeist forum, or Peter Joseph himself, they did it. The Zeitgeist forum is not there to meat every demand a critic has. If you can't accept that then don't join in the first place. Go to a forum like conspiracyscience where you can bitch and moan about practically everything. Well, not about everything. People like Cody Vickers get banned as well. Which is quite strange since there isn't that much of a gap from what I have seen.
No, disgruntled former members and stalkers of the Zeitgeist Movement. The fault lies with you and your inability to take no for an answer.

B-Fly 4

August 1, 2010

Why Anti Cultist Blog?

I've been following up on the Venus Project for about almost a year now. Keeping an eye out for new bits of information. Lots of it is positive but you're going to run into detractors as well. One person I came across goes by the alias 'Anti-Cultist' and as the nickname suggests he's under the impression that the Zeitgeist Movement is a cult or has cultish tendencies. He runs a blog that you can find here. Here's how 'Anti-Cultist' explains why he dislikes Zeitgeist and the Venus Project.

"Group mentality is something that gets silly, people herd together for a cause and end up ignoring the rules of their group, and the rules of society. Most people start off with decent intentions, but get caught up in the chaos and excitement of their movement or cause, and lose themselves with in the group. The defensive nature of group members is quite interesting to observe and study, when it comes to pointing out factors that undermine their cause or their group identity. It is as if one had killed something they loved, or as if they were personally offended by the information due to too much emotional attachment. Members become over confident than they would be on their own and stir up all manner of troubles for “antagonists“, and that is where we come in, this blog is to point out the ridiculous nature of group mentality, the problems of groups, the underlying obviousness that is invisble to members of groups. They would call us group antagonists, You can call us anti cultist".

After reading the "why this blog?" post I'm not inclined to label him as "anti-cultist." That doesn't seem to grasp the real nature of his problem with TZM or TVP because the argument is pretty weak to begin with.
First, I wouldn't label TZM or TVP as a cult. Cults are almost exclusively associated with religion and/or religious figures. With TVP the focus is on science to solve social problems. That's something entirely different then faith.
Secondly, pointing out that there is a group mentality and that therefore the movement reeks of a cult, is also disingenuous. When people form a group, how can you not have a common set of goals and a group mentality in the long run? That's simply the social mechanics of the group moving forward. It has nothing to do with being cultish. By that same sort of reasoning members of the Republican party are in a cult. Fans of the New York Yankees. How about the people that visit all the different churches in the U.S.?
A group mentality is a natural thing. The cult label is used if such a group is way out of the (religious) mainstream. Is the Venus Project way out of mainstream? I don't think so. Many matters the Venus Project advocates are possible with todays standard of technology.

The question by anti cultist: 'why this blog?', still hasn't been answered in my opinion since the arguments I've seen so far are simply inadequate. Maybe we should take a look at his personal experiences post in order to find some real answers. And what do you know? Anti cultist was a Zeitgeist member. When reading that post you'll notice that he was dissatisfied with the approach the owners of the Zeitgeist forum took after Addendum came out. But first something else, which is very important in my book. Anti cultist writes;

"At the same time there were numerous anti members who frequented the site with various targeted ideas about how the original movie was a complete fallacy and a lot of the claims could not be proven, but there were also the more intelligent dissenting voices calling out for proof and evidence for the claims of the venus project as opposed to the movies."

You wonder why the forum took a different approach when 'anti members' joined and started targeting their own ideas? Anti cultist seems to neglect one important factor. There are those people who disagree and present their ideas in a respectful manner and there are those people who are disrespectful and drive their opinions home no matter what - even if it means to insult everyone in the process. These people don't want a dialogue, they want to dominate. I've been a moderator on forums for years and I've been through such incidents many times. People like that basically don't want to go along with the forum goals or give it some counter balance with well-thought arguments, they want it destroyed. This is why a forum takes on a new approach because there are selfish people out there that simply want to see it gone. That's also the reason why some 'anti members' join in the first place. . .

Reading anti cultist experiences on the forum it's obvious he was somewhat skeptical from the start, didn't like the changes in the forum while giving little attention to those folks out to create havoc. That part didn't seem to bother him that much. So what does it all boil down to? Here's an excerpt from the comments section where anti cultist expands on civil unrest after an economic collapse.

"While TVP and their followers somehow think that they will miraculously make the world great from collapse, I dont see this at all. I see mass aggitation and violence, selfish taking and stealing until there is nothing left and those that have things protect them. This is all of course speculative and futuristic, but people are animals first and social creatures second, we are social because it serves a purpose to group together cohesively for trade/profits and survival, take away everything and people will either stay in the cities and loot or run for the hills and survive."

And right he is. The bottom line is that people are selfish. People think of number 1 and do those things that benefit them the most. People work to make money which in turn enables them to buy food and have a roof over their heads. Our society works that way given the monetary capitalistic principle. Take that away and people try to survive by any means. Wait a minute. What does the Venus Project stand for? Sharing resources on a global scale so that everyone has all the necessities of life?
Selfish taking and stealing is something that happens when people live in scarcity. Why else would you steal in the first place? Doesn't the Venus Project advocate abundance?

Right, people are animals first and social creatures second, and people are social as a group in order to survive. Question anti cultist! Why would you criticize the Zeitgeist Movement, associate it with a 'group mentality' that is somehow "cultish" while you already provided the answer to the question why people band together and act towards common goals? Isn't that one hell of a contradiction? People often band together for survival. A cult has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Isn't the Venus Project one method which by survival can be achieved, maybe even guaranteed?

You're absolutely right when you say that people are selfish. People reason towards that which benefits them the most. That's probably the answer to the title in my blog post. People see something, some approach, and they just don't like it or doubt it will succeed. Why? I guess the answer to that one should be clear by now.

Sketchzoid #9