March 31, 2011

Seeing Like A Troll

Last week I made a video response, sort of, to Muertos who issued a challenge to the Zeitgeist community by demanding that 'we' should read a book called 'Seeing Like A State' by professor James Scott in order to have a formal debate with him. The book itself is a critique against implementing technology on a large scale and central planning, which Scott calls 'high-modernism.' (In case you're wondering I am reading the book at the moment.) My video response was also heavily influenced by comedy since from what I've seen Muertos post on a number of forums and blogs, he's in no position to be taken seriously.

Scott's book is also the latest attempt by Muertos in persuading the Zeitgeist folks to let go of their ideology. That's because at some level Muertos can't stand that kind of ideology because it conflicts with his own. Of course, like many critics he doesn't let this be known. First we Zeitgeist supporters were a bunch of conspiracy theorists, based on the first Zeitgeist film which had nothing to do with the later Venus Project. Next we don't support charity, which is false, and after that we became cult members. Safe to say it has been a constant avalanche of critique. That's one thing, but another thing which leads to not taking him seriously is this;

Above was a message on the Conspiracy Science forums. Muertos dropped down his guard and admits why he's doing the things he does; 'to abuse and ridicule Zeitgeist members.' Clearly he has no intent in discussing matters in a civilized debate. In the back of his mind he already decided that Zeitgeist and the Venus Project should go the way of the dinosaurs. As such no one should feel obligated to meet any of his demands since they are insincere to begin with. It's typical trolling behavior. He was also waiting for some people to fail in meeting his demands so he could lash out in return.

In my interactions with him I also detected that he has a habit of generalizing. If someone adheres to a (conspiracy) theory surrounding 9/11 then the whole Zeitgeist Movement are a bunch of conspiracy theorists, omitting of course that some folks don't support the theory, don't care or have moved on already. His latest attempt in marginalizing a group of people and making them seem inadequate or disloyal is to refer to them as cult members. A favorite troll tactic. Quite funny actually since not so long ago Muertos stated that it was not a cult. Using the term cult is of course derogatory and intentional at that.
The Zeitgeist Movement advocates to use the scientific method for social concern, not religion. But these are of course semantics for someone whose only objective is to marginalize and discredit that which they don't agree with.


Devan Evans said...

I was able to find a pdf copy of the book he is going on about so if anyone wants to please visit the link here:

Ed V. said...

Hey Devan. Already have the PDF and reading the book when I have the time. It's fascinating to see the underlying philosophies in Scott's work and those that support his thesis. It all comes back to ideology. I'll make some preliminary comments soon.

Devan Evans said...

Hey any follow up article or has your view on the matter changed and not going to bother with Muertos' challenge?

Ed V. said...

Well, my 'view' hasn't changed but there's the notion with me lately that I have better things to do with my free time then spend a lot of it on a challenge made by a troll.

I can tell you that philosophy-wise it's easy to see where Muertos is going with professor Scott's book. For those that believe in the free market and (anarcho) capitalism it's one of their bibles, since it criticizes central planning and government interference. But what I've seen so far in the book the critique is one-sided and doesn't take into account the cost of a "natural" and "organic" (laissez faire) approach.

Here's also some advice, look up 'game theory' on YouTube. It was an economic theory developed in the 1950s, it inspired and continues to inspire a lot of economists and its basically the foundation of our current paradigm.

Devan Evans said...

Ah ok, yah I totally agree about Muertos' challenge. Is there any chance at all about possibly reading "The Cancer Stage of Capitalism," if you already haven't.? It is a great book and I can give it to yah if you want. If yah can add me to skype, my skype is voiceofreason467 and I can give yah the file for it. Feel free to edit the skype invite out if you want.

Ed V. said...

Hey Devan. Sorry for the late reply, I was busy 'lubricating' a few critics. ;)

Is that book you mention written by John McMurtry?
About Skype I don't know. Don't you have to pay a fee for using that network? I'd have to look into it.