Your Friendly Real Estate Agent

Notorious Zeitgeist critic James Kush revealed on his blog that he is in the real estate business. He boasts that he's at the point of selling property worth $500.000, looking at the housing market in my own country and what real estate agents usually make on a deal I estimate that good old James stands to profit around $10.000 on that sale (assuming of course the percentage is the same). Such an easy market, real estate, when you really think about it. As a real estate agent you're simply the middle man, a salesman who doesn't own the property yet brokers a deal between the seller and buyer. Entirely overrated if you ask me. With a little legal knowledge everyone can sell their own property.

It's also quite easy to see what James' real motivation is for confronting the Zeitgeist Movement and it's the same with other critics such as Muertos who sells books and Paul Jones who owns a record label. Money and self interest. Pure and simple. If some organization advocates the abolition of money (like the Zeitgeist Movement), well, certain people who don't have a problem raking in the dollars or pounds themselves develop somewhat of a brainfart because that kind of ideology conflicts with their own agenda. Since normal arguments against the type altruism the Zeitgeist Movement forwards is insufficient they simply move on to the next level and that is to discredit and go for the character assassination.

I was thinking though since the motivation of the critics in some to most cases is pretty much clear cut - maybe they can incorporate the methods they employ on the internet into their respective businesses and make an extra buck. Muertos' next book titled 'Life Without Conspiracy Theorists.' Paul Jones' new record label; 'The Cult-Smear Project.' Last but not least of course, James Kush can come up with some pretty slick sale slogans. 'This house is occult-free.' Or, 'This property has never been inhabited by cult members.' 'Kush trashes and discredits anything that gets in the way of making you a profit, because I'm your friendly real estate agent.' Could work, maybe.

TVP Critics & Hypocrisy At Its Best

again im being attacked by people, i am not a troll, you are basing your judgements on ignorant belief structures, i have made more valid posts on this forum than you have had truthful thoughts.

Those are the words written by the infamous "Anti Cultist" (a.k.a. Paul Jones) on the Zeitgeist forums over a year ago. I ran across them after having some time to follow up on an article written by "Mr T." on his website. When you read the thread over at the Zeitgeist forums you'll actually see that Mr Jones is responding to an allegation made by another contributor and where "Anti Cultist" is addressed as the 'local forum troll.' As you can see above in the quoted text Mr Jones strongly denies the charges, and lays the blame on the ignorance of others. It's in stark contrast compared to another post, written on another forum some 5 months later. Here Mr Jones actually admits trolling the Zeitgeist forum in a debate with another former ZG member.

Considering you have absolutely no idea who i was on the forum. I had many different accounts on there over the year + gone by. I created a complete agreeing character who was all into the movement, then I created a final character who outright disagreed and said so. Which do you think got into trouble the most ? And might I add the disagreeable character was threatened with banning and being watched from the top level admins and mods. I also had a famous character in their movement, in fact one of the most respected members they ever had, talk about them lapping up people who agree with them.

To make matters perfectly clear once more, 'Anti Cultist,' 'Edward Scissorhands' and 'Mr Jones' are all the same person. He is one of the fiercest vocal Zeitgeist critics. While he maintains that he was once a supporter of the Zeitgeist Movement, I have ample evidence - in his own words - that he was nothing of the kind. The evidence shows that he was one misleading person. I reckon that some folks would possibly label him as a 'cointelpro,' since he was a person who joined the movement - pretended to be genuine - only later to discredit it by any means possible. But, I wouldn't go that far. Not that I'm that opposed to conspiracy theories but I think it isn't the case here. Personally, I think Mr Jones joined half-heartedly and simply couldn't take half of what he himself dished out. Perhaps you know those kind of folks, those that make fun of others yet get angry when the same stunt is pulled on them. I think something similar happened here. Someone stepped on his ego one too many times and a grudge originated. Isn't it remarkable how you can bring it all back to psychology?

TVP Critics & Their Antics 3

I wonder how long this video will be up since there are so many (false) assumptions and accusations that when the truth comes out, it will severely embarrass the creator(s) of this video and the people that supported it. Above is part 1 of 4 but basically the accusation is, is that Peter Joseph created the video named 'Who Is Peter Joseph?' and that the maker Charles Robinson is a non existent character and PJ himself.

While the creator of this video is 'Anon13AllOfUs,' who also uses the Anonymous meme to his advantage, anti cultist apparently is also involved. Coincidentally enough, anti cultist already addressed his suspicions that Peter Joseph was behind the Charles Robinson videos on the 16th of February with this blog post. Oddly enough some 6 months later a video comes out addressing the exact same issues followed up by another blog post from anti cultist confirming the statements in the anonymous video and the reference to his earlier 'work.' This is not the only occurrence where possible connections seem to exist between anti cultist and some anonymous YouTube users. Anti cultist made a blog post where he claims TZM and TVP are a cult, involving the work of Dr Robert J. Lifton. Again you can see a similar content in one of the anonymous videos. Lets also not forget that both anti cultist and the anonymous YouTube users both use the cult claim in a derogatory manner in order to smear the Zeitgeist movement. It's evident that there are many similarities and quite possibly they are working together.

Rather quickly comments have surfaced from Peter Joseph and Charles 'Robinson.' Here's what Peter Joseph had to say on the Zeitgeist forum about the video and the claims therein;

I'll email Charles and have him post something to put this bs to bed. He isn't in the movement btw and he wanted his identity to be confidential due to the overall tensions associated with me. I asked him to post a picture he took of us and he refused - as he is afraid it would hurt his career to be identified with such a controversial association... (his last name isn't actually Robinson)
Hilarious- I just saw the vid they posted and they point to the fact that one of the screen grabs shows my name logged into amazon. All the images given to Charles were from me, and yes finally sent them the day before he posted the vid online as he had been sitting on the edit - waiting to add them. I hope everyone here appreciates the bs I endure on a daily basis to do what I do. This new hate subculture is just incredible... and pathetic.

Charles 'Robinson' comments on the YouTube channel;

Listen you morons. I am a real person. My last name is actually not Robinson and your trophy issue with the amazon date is because he sent it to me the night before. I was waiting for the images for weeks. I'm also going to make the work copyright so you can't abuse it like you have. a-holes

Questioned if he had any footage of the interview where he was asking questions directly to Peter Joseph;

Yes, I do and I will making a video very soon to show you jackasses how painfully stupid you are.

I can't wait for the video to come out. Do you really think Peter Joseph would be that stupid to create a video where he pretends to be interviewed? He would ask a co-worker or a family member if he felt inclined to give an interview about himself. I'm confident that the future will show to what lengths some hate filled bigots will go in order to discredit Peter Joseph and the Zeitgeist movement.

TZM/TVP Critic 'Anti Cultist' Side Steps

Well, I was expecting a truthful and revealing reply from 'anti cultist' (Paul Jones?) regarding my previous post exposing him as a troll. Nah, who am I kidding. I fully expected him to side step and skirt the issue of him trolling the Zeitgeist forums. When caught with their pants down frauds often turn and run away instead of facing the music and you only have to read up on anti cultists blog to see that he's not the type to admit any wrongdoing. He's pretty good at accusing others of foul play, I can tell you that straight up. Providing details that don't work in his favor? Well anti cultist has a bit of a problem with that so it seems. So, no big blog post response. Just a comment in his original response (about me). Lets take a look at that than.

OK the guys done another retarded response to this post attempting to yet again label me as a person who did not join the movement with good intentions, again he has no evidence who I was in the movement or has seen any of the posts I made there. Yet he thinks that because I am now anti TZM this means my intentions werent sincere initially, this is flawed logic because people do do 180′s in real life son, have you ever heard of religious people becoming atheist? It happens in real life, and any which way you try to twist it about me is disingenuous and lies from you.

First of, often people's opinions change incrementally. What you're saying is possible but still quite often people retain a partial support of their initial conviction. The essence of my argument was - is that matters most of the time are not totally black or white. There are many shades of grey and often people move along those tones over time. With you, after researching your blog, I saw nothing of the sort. While you claim to have been (partially) positive of the Zeitgeist movement, after examination of your contributions on various internet venues it becomes clear that there's nothing left. Right now it's pitch black and that in turn makes me wonder if there was any light to begin with.
No, I don't have any evidence who you were in the movement and I haven't seen any posts you made on the Zeitgeist forums with whichever name you used. I do have evidence in your own admission that you used at least 3 different names on the ZG forum. That qualifies as something tangible, right? Why do you have a problem with showing the names you used? That could confirm your claim that you were a pro TZM kinda guy. You got nothing to hide, right?

You are not even worth a serious debate because of simple facts like this showing how stupid your argument is.
What he also did was take the multiple account thing out of context, I intially had one account for over a year, as the forum began to twist and turn into a shit place I created another account to test the waters and see how they would react to my different opinions. It wasnt to troll it was to test how they would react if they did not know it was me.
Simples…experiment completed and I found out that the movement was gimped.

Ah, a sociology experiment after all. Just "testing how they would react if they did not know it was me." Dude, that still falls within the definition of a troll.
"A troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response. [snip] Trolling is a game about identity deception, albeit one that is played without the consent of most of the players."
See? The one that is (mentally) limping here is you, but lets go back to the post you made over at the CS forums.

I had many different accounts on there over the year + gone by. I created a complete agreeing character who was all into the movement, then I created a final character who outright disagreed and said so. Which do you think got into trouble the most ? And might I add the disagreeable character was threatened with banning and being watched from the top level admins and mods. I also had a famous character in their movement, in fact one of the most respected members they ever had, talk about them lapping up people who agree with them.

Call me strange, but when you say that you 'created' a complete agreeing character who was all into the movement, I get the impression that this is a pure falsification, an act of fraud. Is it that strange then that I (and others) question your sincerity when you claim you were a pro TZM guy? Do you see how you muddied your own water?
And what about the 'famous character,' was "he" part of the experiment as well or were you just having a bit of fun? No matter how you twist and turn this, the fact remains that you were actively, by your own admission, trolling the forum - pushing peoples buttons, hoping to get a reaction. I call that evidence that questions your motives, and this puts a whole different light on your criticism of the Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project. It turns out you weren't participating in the process of a movement, you were manipulating it. And that anti cultist is an entirely different situation.

Also he bounces around the cult label happily without addressing any of the points or the posts made about it, this guys a lamer he is using arguments that have been refuted dozens of times by many different people to argue his cult innocence. He provides no science, he has no evidence he just has his own claims, seriously not worth my time and hardly worthy of another blog addressing his nonsense.

I stressed a couple of times before that when using the term cult loosely, it can apply to many if not all the group structures in our society. (Btw, ironically enough, outside the realm of TZM and TVP, you don't make any cult claims for any groups!) What's there to stop me from making the claim that all the guys over at the CS forums belong to a cult. Hell, you all act in a similar manner, have the same type of criticism, you have some dominant vocal guys (leaders). I'm gonna label you the CS cult. Luckily for you, my definition of a cult is somewhat different. But lets get to the heart of the matter. The real reason is not the question if TZM is a cult, the real reason is that by calling TZM a cult you created a method of discrediting the movement. Seeing how you're actively engaged in digging up any dirt possible, collaborating with other notorious critics, the cult claim is just another extension in debunking the Zeitgeist movement. Your actions culminate to nothing less then deliberate anti TZM/TVP propaganda.

When you address any point I have actually made Ed V I might consider you worth a debate, for now you’re just firing blanks. Oh and yeah Ed all those quotes of mine you’ve posted I still stand by, because I think the venus project is a pile of shit and anyone who blindly believes in it like you I also think are retarded and lacking critical thinking skills.

Not to worry anti cultist. I don't expect a straight answer from you regarding your deceptive trolling exploits or the names you used over at the Zeitgeist forums. A troll wants to hide out in the dark. Chances are that you would only incriminate yourself even further so the best thing you can do and are doing right now is to skirt the issue and avoid further exposure by any means. The truth doesn't work for guys like you. Hopefully that much is clear for the objective reader. Besides, if I would accommodate you on every demand you had you would probably still remain silent on the issues I raised. There's always that possibility that a black propaganda monkey like yourself works that way. Having said that I might address some other points you raised but until then I'm perfectly satisfied with informing the public about you and the shit you're trying to pull with posts like these.

TZM/TVP Critic 'Anti Cultist' Exposed

This a response to 'anti cultist' post; "Quick response to Plan B From The Bacardi Room." I don't address all of his points because half way in my response, after doing some research, I found something that warrants no further waste of my time and energy. Instead anti cultist has some explaining to do since he exposes himself not as an objective researcher or innocent participant, but as an outright troll. Anti cultist's words are everywhere quoted.

There are other forms of cult in operation, cults of personality, cults of financial gain, political cults, there are varying kinds and each have their own particular agendas, most of which have a purpose in that the leadership is out to gain something from either its membership or the actions its membership directly do for them.

Well geesh anti cultist, to how many group structures does that apply in our society? Not that I agree that your definition automatically applies to the Zeitgeist Movement but using your definition many groups would fall into the category of a cult. Political parties, Teabaggers, church-goers, fans of a sports team. Do you go about calling all of them cult members as well? Nah, you just picked TZM and label it a cult because it's convenient. You do it because you're a debunker and want to see the movement disappear from its current format. That's your motivation for taking the cult-angle. Period.

Also if you can provide me with science venus project themselves has conducted to verify that their claims are factual, inclusive of the white papers and sources they have used, as well as the scientific experiments they have conducted with all their results and test conditions. Then show me the peer review process and full disclosure they have carried out with these documents and tests they have carried out. Of course here is where you will fail, because as everyone already knows there are none, they have none, and talking about other peoples science and conducting your own science are not the same thing.

What kind of science do you seek? Fresco and Meadows in a lab doing experiments? The Venus Project foremost is a social project, not a scientific one. Sure, TVP borrows science and papers from the world and shapes it into a social proposal and format. Complaining about that there isn't any hardcore science done by Fresco himself is relevant in this regard, how? Oh wait, you take this approach because you seek a method of criticizing TVP. Bravo anti cultist! The Venus Project, although started many years ago under a different name, basically just got rolling when Addendum came out. It is a work in progress! At this point it seeks membership in order to get the momentum going. Just be patience, with enough expertise, help and support I'm sure some real science can done in the near future. Until then, I don't see it the responsibility of TVP to meet every demand an impatient critic or debunker has who has no intention of helping out in the first place.

It is also disingenuous to read an introduction to a blog and bypass its critical content and then proceed to make a complete subjective analysis on it without any knowledge of it and not attempt to address its core critiques. Your argument here is weak since you present the intro page and do not present your readers with the actual data and facts presented as to why the cult mentality has been observed throughout the interactions with their leadership and membership. You fail to present your viewers with the actual posts given as to why they are acting like a cult. This is just weak Ed and you are simply biasing and prompting your readers into your own particular train of thought and not the actual objective multi faceted story and evidence.

Oh, I'm sorry anti cultist. I thought mentioning your posts called 'why this blog' and 'personal experiences' captured the essence of your beef with Zeitgeist quite well. Many, if not all of the elements of your critique against Zeitgeist are plainly visible in those posts. The thing also is; all you guys over at the CS forums who write pieces (which you also present on your blog) have many complaints. Addressing each and every one of them takes up some time. That is something I'm working on. No I don't consider my approach disingenuous. I clearly linked your blog and posts for everyone to see. I also addressed the cult claim, which I think is a load of bollox.

What the writer neglects to tell his readers here is in my blog I already state I was pro TVP/TZM and was very interested in the movement initially and was a very well versed and active member of the movement and forum. This again is another disingenuous attempt to undermine my original intentions of joining the movement and reasons for leaving the movement. Since the user has no idea exactly who I was on the movements forum he 100% can not verify his statements and it is merely speculative accusations with zero credit to them. Fail again Ed try again.

Ok, I'll try again. The thing is anti cultist, you claim to have been pro TVP/TZM yet I haven't seen one post over on the CS forum in that fashion. While opinions can change it's very unusual for people to do a 180 in this regard. Most of your contributions go like this;
(From 5 months ago)

Everything you need to know about this potential cult, including its refusal for financial transparency with evidence of dialogues between a member and Roxanne Meadows. The identity of Peter Joseph, The legal dispute and failing of trademarking of RBE by the venus project with documents, and other important facets they dont like discussing on their official forums. Ex members spill the beans on the inner workings and information not many know.

Ah thanks, yes sorry, did'nt mean to pester you guys with shit you already were aware of. Glad that people are reading this stuff anyway, these cabbages need throwing in the compost heap with the rest of the zany carroty cults.

That goes for the old fart Jacque as well. And before you try to defend grandad, he just plays with his kids toys, films them, and then uses other researchers materials to validate his thunerbird model world.

As a long time member who played the agree and disagree character I found out first hand what they liked and disliked, and what they did about your posts and accounts.

That last one made me go; 'hmm?'
That's begs the question were you really a genuine pro TZM/TVP to begin with?
But wait anti cultist, I can do better. . . . . . . . .

. . . . . .

. . . . .

. . . .

. . .

. .

.

Lets take a look at this post shall we, from the CS forums in the topic "What makes the Venus Project different from any other cult?" (Page 13.)

"You don't go in there calling them a cult and that they are all stupid. Apparently I am better at communicating my points to them than you. Since I have been one of the most vocal critics on there for over a year, I think my situation proves you wrong."

and this is not insulting ?

Considering you have absolutely no idea who i was on the forum.

I had many different accounts on there over the year + gone by.

I created a complete agreeing character who was all into the movement, then I created a final character who outright disagreed and said so.

Which do you think got into trouble the most ?
And might I add the disagreeable character was threatened with banning and being watched from the top level admins and mods.

I am well aware of how it works there ed.

Your experience and opinion on the matter is no more valuable than mine.

I also had a famous character in their movement, in fact one of the most respected members they ever had, talk about them lapping up people who agree with them.

So, were you really a pro TZM/TVP guy like you pretend out to be? I don't think so. Your post above is your own admission of trolling the Zeitgeist forum and creating characters in order to get responses. You should have mentioned that in your personal experiences blog post instead of telling stories that covered your own ass. The post above shows you're were one misleading s.o.b. over at the Zeitgeist forums. You had an agreeable character, a disagreeable character and a famous character?
Lets take a look at your words again Dr Jekyll;

What the writer neglects to tell his readers here is in my blog I already state I was pro TVP/TZM and was very interested in the movement initially and was a very well versed and active member of the movement and forum. This again is another disingenuous attempt to undermine my original intentions of joining the movement and reasons for leaving the movement. Since the user has no idea exactly who I was on the movements forum he 100% can not verify his statements and it is merely speculative accusations with zero credit to them. Fail again Ed try again.

Who is being disingenuous here? We have one version were you claim to be a (former) stand up member of the movement and forum, yet we also have a version where you admit creating different characters in order to solicit responses (a.k.a. trolling). Which one are you?
You know what never seizes to amaze me? Guys complaining about a forum, its moderators and rules while they were the ones adding to the chaos in the first place! Such people are pure hypocrites if you ask me. And you actually wonder why people get banned from a forum? Your actions and the actions of other trolls contributed to a forum imposing restrictions.
Yes, I questioned your sincerity and it turns out it was rightly so. Maybe you should give out the names you used on the Zeitgeist forums so that I (and others) can examine your conduct in greater detail. And don't try to sell your trolling exploits as some sociology study you were on. At this point all suspicion lies on you and your behavior which is plainly visible in all your contributions. I see no reason to address other points you raised at this time. Clearly the issue has become your motivation since you admit to having misled other contributors and moderators of the Zeitgeist forums by creating various disingenuous personalities.



Donath's definition of trolling;

Trolling is a game about identity deception, albeit one that is played without the consent of most of the players. The troll attempts to pass as a legitimate participant, sharing the group's common interests and concerns; the newsgroups members, if they are cognizant of trolls and other identity deceptions, attempt to both distinguish real from trolling postings, and upon judging a poster a troll, make the offending poster leave the group. Their success at the former depends on how well they — and the troll — understand identity cues; their success at the latter depends on whether the troll's enjoyment is sufficiently diminished or outweighed by the costs imposed by the group.
Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community. Furthermore, in a group that has become sensitized to trolling — where the rate of deception is high — many honestly naïve questions may be quickly rejected as trollings. This can be quite off-putting to the new user who upon venturing a first posting is immediately bombarded with angry accusations. Even if the accusation is unfounded, being branded a troll is quite damaging to one's online reputation.

TVP Critics & Their Antics 2

Well, didn't take long for my posts to get noticed by some guys from the Conspiracy Science forums, although to be honest I expected them a bit sooner. (Did leave links all over the place.) The thread involving my blog is called: 'Another asinine pro TVP/TZM blog defending voiceofracism.' I'll get back to the 'asinine' part later but it is true I probably said somethings that upset certain people and it's only natural that they take up a defensive position. Whether that's righteous is another matter.
Yes I defended Devan Evans' blogpost criticizing some players over at the CS forums, because in my opinion the critique is perfectly justified. His contribution showed that some folks weren't as squeaky clean as they pretended to be. Like Evans I come to the conclusion that some people made a mess of things themselves and should look inward instead of blaming the Zeitgeist forum moderators, Peter Joseph or the movement itself. It's that simple.

Quick recap of some of the people I (and Devan Evans) addressed. Nanos, seems like a fairly decent bloke from what I have gathered yet couldn't stop criticizing the movement on a regular basis. Most striking of all, from my perspective, the moment he got banned on the ZG forum he pops up over the CS forum and lets face it, that place is already known to harbor fierce critics. In a way some people would look on that as another justification.
Thanks to Ed W. it's obvious now that he isn't Ed B - another guy who had a beef with the Zeitgeist movement. I'm Ed V. so I think we can all agree that it is a little bit confusing at times. So Ed W., relax. I did leave the connection unverified and open to questioning.
'Anti cultist,' another fierce critic, armchair sociologist and hypocrite in my book. Complains on his blog that groups (like Zeitgeist) are in fact a cult yet also clearly states that people band together for survival. Complains that the Zeitgeist forums took another approach while he was fully aware of the endeavors of 'anti-members' out to create chaos, did not focus on that or the fact that it drove some moderators to tears. Complains that the behavior of many Zeitgeist members and supporters leaves much to be desired yet a quick glance over at the CS forums will show you that he spews the most foulest shit himself.

Asinine
–adjective
1. foolish, unintelligent, or silly; stupid: It is surprising that supposedly intelligent people can make such asinine statements.
2. of or like an ass: asinine obstinacy; asinine features.

Really? I'm being asinine for pointing out what I perceive to be fallacies? When I see a topic like this one over at the CS forums called 'Jacque Fresco: Deadbeat Dad,' I don't get the impression that you're doing objective (background) research. Seeing such a topic where some folks make some shocking comments give me the impression that it is simply character assassination.
Those folks are way beyond the point of objective analysis. You've reached the point where people (Zeitgeist supporters) view you as a debunking collective and rightly so. I raise the question; 'how did you get there?,' because some people pretend to be some kind of sociologist yet the introspective angle is hardly if not at all present. It's seemingly always easier to blame someone else. . .
But now that the pleasantries are over, I'll see if I can counter some 'main points.' And who knows, maybe I have some demands of my own. Quid pro quo, right?

TVP Critics & Their Antics

I've been reading up on yet another blog, this time from a guy who is a Zeitgeist supporter. Quite refreshing, and revealing I must say since some people who criticize TZM and TVP are not so innocent as they pretend to be. Although they would probably see it in a different light. Devan Evans made a post here, laying out some of the antics the critics pull. A number of critics have come together at the Conspiracy Science forum, that's also where you can find many topics and posts criticizing Peter Joseph, Fresco and even other Zeitgeist forum regulars.

You might consider asking yourself how come they have such intimate knowledge of individuals who visit the Zeitgeist forum. The answer is quite simple. They have been members of the forum and some continue to monitor developments. Upon further examination you'll find out that some of the critics were in fact members of the Zeitgeist Movement but were banned from the forum, often for misconduct. Maybe it's me and my conspiracy theories but I already see a pattern emerging here. But lets take a look at a few circumstances that led to a removal from the forum.

"Well, Fresco wasn’t doing a good job with PR, so they got Peter in, he did a better job, so whats wrong with suggesting they get someone else in to do a better job, the same thing is happening with mods, they have been upgraded."

Written by a guy named Nanos who seems completely unaware that Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows are currently on a world lecture tour across the globe promoting the Venus Project. (I visited the lecture in Holland myself.) You may be inclined to think this is a small transgression and I would agree with you if it's one time event. People can make a mistake or have a bad day and write something in an emotional mood. It becomes something entirely different when you make cheap shots on a regular basis and this is what apparently transpired with this particular member which lead to his banning.

"In fact I met him in London after a lecture in passing and the VERY first thing he did was attack me on the 911 issue – this after a 4 hour lecture/talk about TZM… that is all he could come up with… pointless."

Those are Peter Joseph's comments about a former member named Ed, who apparently spend about 15 months complaining on the Zeitgeist forum why the movie Zeitgeist 1 sucked. I don't know if this is the same person as Edward Winston, another vocal critic of the Zeitgeist Movement. In any case I find the behavior of this person disturbing. Spending all that time on a forum disagreeing and then going to a lecture only to confront the person who you have a beef with over matters in cyberspace, is what? Obsessive maybe?

"One post which was made towards myself was by Edward Scissorhands saying that “This dumb fuck who makes youtube videos with a blue glow in the dark dildo microphone thinks he can do what scientists havent managed to do for erm a century.""

Edward Scissorhands is none other then "anti cultist" who has a blog that I addressed in a previous post. (You just have to click on his profile over at the conspiracyscience forum which links directly to his blog.) Above is quite a different tone than what he displays on his blog contributions. I wonder, did he use that type of language on the Zeitgeist forum? Call me strange but that is exactly the type of language that will get you banned. If you don't show any respect, you're not going to receive it either. That's simply how the world works.

Many critics (who flock over to the conspiracyscience forum) seem to have had a direct altercation with the Zeitgeist Movement. The question is; who's to blame for that? Are the moderators of the Zeitgeist forum really that bad or do some contributors just behave badly - think they can do and say anything they want? Lets take a look at a segment of the forum rules which are common throughout the internet and state;

"1. Please treat everyone with respect. Insulting, derogatory and/or any other disrespectful discourse is inappropriate and unacceptable.
2. Please do not engage in personal attacks (arguing with and/or attacking the person instead of addressing the topic) and try not to respond to such attacks, except to redirect the discussion to the topic."

Again, call me strange but from what I've seen some critics had no inclination whatsoever to discuss matters concerning Zeitgeist in a respectful manner. It also makes me wonder why they joined in the first place. I sometimes think they didn't join to converse, they came there to argue. Now, I'm going to divert from the approach that Devan Evans took who treated this subject with the utmost care. I think some of the critics are just plain morons. Yes you read it right. I don't like to use curse words but sometimes there isn't a better way to describe it.
Some folks are apparently under the impression that they can say and do anything the feel like. The freedom on the internet and their giant ego's also somehow gives them the impression that they are not at fault or had anything to do with an altercation. Ego's that are too rigid to look at themselves or the behavior they displayed that led them to getting banned. No, they think it is the fault of someone else, go on a tantrum and play the blame-game. The moderators on the Zeitgeist forum, or Peter Joseph himself, they did it. The Zeitgeist forum is not there to meat every demand a critic has. If you can't accept that then don't join in the first place. Go to a forum like conspiracyscience where you can bitch and moan about practically everything. Well, not about everything. People like Cody Vickers get banned as well. Which is quite strange since there isn't that much of a gap from what I have seen.
No, disgruntled former members and stalkers of the Zeitgeist Movement. The fault lies with you and your inability to take no for an answer.

Why Anti Cultist Blog?

I've been following up on the Venus Project for about almost a year now. Keeping an eye out for new bits of information. Lots of it is positive but you're going to run into detractors as well. One person I came across goes by the alias 'Anti-Cultist' and as the nickname suggests he's under the impression that the Zeitgeist Movement is a cult or has cultish tendencies. He runs a blog that you can find here. Here's how 'Anti-Cultist' explains why he dislikes Zeitgeist and the Venus Project.

"Group mentality is something that gets silly, people herd together for a cause and end up ignoring the rules of their group, and the rules of society. Most people start off with decent intentions, but get caught up in the chaos and excitement of their movement or cause, and lose themselves with in the group. The defensive nature of group members is quite interesting to observe and study, when it comes to pointing out factors that undermine their cause or their group identity. It is as if one had killed something they loved, or as if they were personally offended by the information due to too much emotional attachment. Members become over confident than they would be on their own and stir up all manner of troubles for “antagonists“, and that is where we come in, this blog is to point out the ridiculous nature of group mentality, the problems of groups, the underlying obviousness that is invisble to members of groups. They would call us group antagonists, You can call us anti cultist".

After reading the "why this blog?" post I'm not inclined to label him as "anti-cultist." That doesn't seem to grasp the real nature of his problem with TZM or TVP because the argument is pretty weak to begin with.
First, I wouldn't label TZM or TVP as a cult. Cults are almost exclusively associated with religion and/or religious figures. With TVP the focus is on science to solve social problems. That's something entirely different then faith.
Secondly, pointing out that there is a group mentality and that therefore the movement reeks of a cult, is also disingenuous. When people form a group, how can you not have a common set of goals and a group mentality in the long run? That's simply the social mechanics of the group moving forward. It has nothing to do with being cultish. By that same sort of reasoning members of the Republican party are in a cult. Fans of the New York Yankees. How about the people that visit all the different churches in the U.S.?
A group mentality is a natural thing. The cult label is used if such a group is way out of the (religious) mainstream. Is the Venus Project way out of mainstream? I don't think so. Many matters the Venus Project advocates are possible with todays standard of technology.

The question by anti cultist: 'why this blog?', still hasn't been answered in my opinion since the arguments I've seen so far are simply inadequate. Maybe we should take a look at his personal experiences post in order to find some real answers. And what do you know? Anti cultist was a Zeitgeist member. When reading that post you'll notice that he was dissatisfied with the approach the owners of the Zeitgeist forum took after Addendum came out. But first something else, which is very important in my book. Anti cultist writes;

"At the same time there were numerous anti members who frequented the site with various targeted ideas about how the original movie was a complete fallacy and a lot of the claims could not be proven, but there were also the more intelligent dissenting voices calling out for proof and evidence for the claims of the venus project as opposed to the movies."

You wonder why the forum took a different approach when 'anti members' joined and started targeting their own ideas? Anti cultist seems to neglect one important factor. There are those people who disagree and present their ideas in a respectful manner and there are those people who are disrespectful and drive their opinions home no matter what - even if it means to insult everyone in the process. These people don't want a dialogue, they want to dominate. I've been a moderator on forums for years and I've been through such incidents many times. People like that basically don't want to go along with the forum goals or give it some counter balance with well-thought arguments, they want it destroyed. This is why a forum takes on a new approach because there are selfish people out there that simply want to see it gone. That's also the reason why some 'anti members' join in the first place. . .

Reading anti cultist experiences on the forum it's obvious he was somewhat skeptical from the start, didn't like the changes in the forum while giving little attention to those folks out to create havoc. That part didn't seem to bother him that much. So what does it all boil down to? Here's an excerpt from the comments section where anti cultist expands on civil unrest after an economic collapse.

"While TVP and their followers somehow think that they will miraculously make the world great from collapse, I dont see this at all. I see mass aggitation and violence, selfish taking and stealing until there is nothing left and those that have things protect them. This is all of course speculative and futuristic, but people are animals first and social creatures second, we are social because it serves a purpose to group together cohesively for trade/profits and survival, take away everything and people will either stay in the cities and loot or run for the hills and survive."

And right he is. The bottom line is that people are selfish. People think of number 1 and do those things that benefit them the most. People work to make money which in turn enables them to buy food and have a roof over their heads. Our society works that way given the monetary capitalistic principle. Take that away and people try to survive by any means. Wait a minute. What does the Venus Project stand for? Sharing resources on a global scale so that everyone has all the necessities of life?
Selfish taking and stealing is something that happens when people live in scarcity. Why else would you steal in the first place? Doesn't the Venus Project advocate abundance?

Right, people are animals first and social creatures second, and people are social as a group in order to survive. Question anti cultist! Why would you criticize the Zeitgeist Movement, associate it with a 'group mentality' that is somehow "cultish" while you already provided the answer to the question why people band together and act towards common goals? Isn't that one hell of a contradiction? People often band together for survival. A cult has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Isn't the Venus Project one method which by survival can be achieved, maybe even guaranteed?

You're absolutely right when you say that people are selfish. People reason towards that which benefits them the most. That's probably the answer to the title in my blog post. People see something, some approach, and they just don't like it or doubt it will succeed. Why? I guess the answer to that one should be clear by now.